Too bad I can't write worth a damn, or I'd start one too.
By the way, I have told my mother about what I believe; tried to do so gently, but uncompromisingly. I think she thinks I was just angsting and blowing off steam. The subject hasn't come up since.
I too have suggested to my mother (indirectly a few years ago) that I would rather not have existed. Unfortunately, saying that kind of thing is “just a symptom of depression.” People are spared of any further trouble if they don’t think you’re thinking straight. I have yet to find a dignified way of communicating it (with logic) without badly hurting my parents. I’ve tested the logic angle and I just get the impression that people (not parents) think I’m a monster for making the case.
I’m not sure of the wording but I think I read that the mother of Emil Cioran said that she would have had an abortion if she had known how unhappy he would be. I sometimes wish that my parents would say something like that. I think that an “I was wrong” would open a new chapter in our relationship.
This isn't likely to be especially helpful in discussing things like this with your parents, but it seems that the claim, "you're just saying that existence has been bad for you because you're depressed," is rather like the claim, "you're just saying that you've been the victim of racism because you feel racially aggrieved."
I should know my parents by now but they still can confuse me. My dad has conceded that he doesn’t know if there is a god but he hopes there is. I can’t personally believe in his god, which is a (Christian) God with up-to-date sensibilities but I can appreciate the want for justice that is contained within his hopes.
Even so, I’m VERY curious about how this religious sensibility played into my birth ie. 80 years+ of potential "suck" might be OK if infinity is marvelous. Obviously, I don't have Heaven to help me mitigate the "suck."
If one accepts the value asymmetry on which David Benatar builds his antinatalist argument in Chapter Two of Better Never to Have Been, then even an infinity of bliss wouldn't justify 80 years of suck. Or even 80 seconds of suck.
That would seem to have a rather staggering theological implication, if you think about it.
Though unfortunately I fear that it doesn't help with one's parents either.
Despite my displeasure at having been conceived and thus consigned to this prison, it's never even occurred to me to blame my parents personally. How were they anything more than victims of the cult of mindless reproduction (i.e. human existence) themselves?
And what is accomplished, even if they understand and apologize? The harm is long done. I, however, have not replicated that harm myself, which is the profoundest thing I can say to them about it.
Increasingly I slip in antinatalism talk to everyone I know. But it hardly matters with the elders. It's the young who must realize that the Cleaver family (i've always found that surname interesting) is not only NOT their sole option, but the worst possible one.
Sister Y, I continue to love your blog and writing, thanks for the link and another great topic. Finding these AN blogs and commentary has been like rain on parched earth.
what is accomplished, even if they understand and apologize?
Then they will probably stop perpetuating the social expectation to breed. This, of course, assumes that your parents (I'm talking about parents in general, not your actual parents) actually give a flying fuck about how you feel, which is quite an assumption to make. I suspect most parents would prefer to have an unhappy child who is a rich and successful lawyer/doctor with a high-status mate (provided this child doesn't bring up their unhappiness to often in conversation) than a happy child who would be perceived as a loser by society.
Hooray, a new AN blog to eat up my time! :)
ReplyDeleteToo bad I can't write worth a damn, or I'd start one too.
By the way, I have told my mother about what I believe; tried to do so gently, but uncompromisingly. I think she thinks I was just angsting and blowing off steam. The subject hasn't come up since.
@ Todd
ReplyDeleteI too have suggested to my mother (indirectly a few years ago) that I would rather not have existed. Unfortunately, saying that kind of thing is “just a symptom of depression.” People are spared of any further trouble if they don’t think you’re thinking straight. I have yet to find a dignified way of communicating it (with logic) without badly hurting my parents. I’ve tested the logic angle and I just get the impression that people (not parents) think I’m a monster for making the case.
I’m not sure of the wording but I think I read that the mother of Emil Cioran said that she would have had an abortion if she had known how unhappy he would be. I sometimes wish that my parents would say something like that. I think that an “I was wrong” would open a new chapter in our relationship.
This isn't likely to be especially helpful in discussing things like this with your parents, but it seems that the claim, "you're just saying that existence has been bad for you because you're depressed," is rather like the claim, "you're just saying that you've been the victim of racism because you feel racially aggrieved."
ReplyDelete@JasonSL
ReplyDeleteIt could be helpful....
I should know my parents by now but they still can confuse me. My dad has conceded that he doesn’t know if there is a god but he hopes there is. I can’t personally believe in his god, which is a (Christian) God with up-to-date sensibilities but I can appreciate the want for justice that is contained within his hopes.
Even so, I’m VERY curious about how this religious sensibility played into my birth ie. 80 years+ of potential "suck" might be OK if infinity is marvelous.
Obviously, I don't have Heaven to help me mitigate the "suck."
@anonymous
ReplyDeleteIf one accepts the value asymmetry on which David Benatar builds his antinatalist argument in Chapter Two of Better Never to Have Been, then even an infinity of bliss wouldn't justify 80 years of suck. Or even 80 seconds of suck.
That would seem to have a rather staggering theological implication, if you think about it.
Though unfortunately I fear that it doesn't help with one's parents either.
Despite my displeasure at having been conceived and thus consigned to this prison, it's never even occurred to me to blame my parents personally. How were they anything more than victims of the cult of mindless reproduction (i.e. human existence) themselves?
ReplyDeleteAnd what is accomplished, even if they understand and apologize? The harm is long done. I, however, have not replicated that harm myself, which is the profoundest thing I can say to them about it.
Increasingly I slip in antinatalism talk to everyone I know. But it hardly matters with the elders. It's the young who must realize that the Cleaver family (i've always found that surname interesting) is not only NOT their sole option, but the worst possible one.
Sister Y, I continue to love your blog and writing, thanks for the link and another great topic. Finding these AN blogs and commentary has been like rain on parched earth.
Sharkbabe
ReplyDeletewhat is accomplished, even if they understand and apologize?
Then they will probably stop perpetuating the social expectation to breed. This, of course, assumes that your parents (I'm talking about parents in general, not your actual parents) actually give a flying fuck about how you feel, which is quite an assumption to make. I suspect most parents would prefer to have an unhappy child who is a rich and successful lawyer/doctor with a high-status mate (provided this child doesn't bring up their unhappiness to often in conversation) than a happy child who would be perceived as a loser by society.